Shape first, drill later...

[mcgregorpipes]

keep reading about magic spoon bits.. so i've custom ground lots of spade bits and a couple spiral bits for chambers with good success.. been thinking about trying to turn the blunt end of an old hss bit into a spoon bit, yes a not very perfectly machined spoon bit.. do they cut about the same as a spade bit? assuming the stiffness and long profile cuts out chatter and there's just one cutting edge so might cut slower.. i drill the chambers on a drill press is there really any advantage to a spoon?

[mcgregorpipes]

btw i've been shaping first then drilling later but always leave the bottom of the bowl alone so its unshaped/square before drilling. then its not hard to hold square the drill press vise and cut chamber and mortise.

[ToddJohnson]

Guys, I'll be out of the country for a month, and during this time, I hope to make real progress on the tooling. I will pop in from time to time and give a progress report. I hope to have more than just spoon bits in Chicago, and then thereafter in perpetuity.

TJ

[Sasquatch]

I don't know what perpetuity is, but that sounds awesome.

[The Smoking Yeti]

I hope to have more than just spoon bits in Chicago

TJ

Is this discussion drawing in aspects of your personal life/ drug habits?

I look forward to seeing the tooling you develop!

Cheers!

Yeti

[mcgregorpipes]

As far as "knowing what I'm talking about," I wasn't necessarily trying to imply that you didn't, I'm only saying I've been doing this for a long time and have probably drilled a couple thousand pipes using spoon bits. I know how they should work, and it is my hope to design and sell some to you guys that do. That's all. I've grown so frustrated by the Ken Lamb tools that change each year but still don't work, and I've tried to "partner" with Ken so that he would use his skills and expertise to produce tools of my own design, but we just can't seem to get together on it.

TJ

are you designing and selling a concave bit like this one? http://www.fine-tools.com/G303710.htm
i've seen photos where they're ground flat wondering if thats what i should be using

[Tyler]

As far as "knowing what I'm talking about," I wasn't necessarily trying to imply that you didn't, I'm only saying I've been doing this for a long time and have probably drilled a couple thousand pipes using spoon bits. I know how they should work, and it is my hope to design and sell some to you guys that do. That's all. I've grown so frustrated by the Ken Lamb tools that change each year but still don't work, and I've tried to "partner" with Ken so that he would use his skills and expertise to produce tools of my own design, but we just can't seem to get together on it.

TJ

are you designing and selling a concave bit like this one? http://www.fine-tools.com/G303710.htm
i've seen photos where they're ground flat wondering if thats what i should be using

No. Don't use that.

search.php?keywords=%22Spoon+bits%22&te ... mit=Search

[oklahoma red]

are you designing and selling a concave bit like this one? http://www.fine-tools.com/G303710.htm
i've seen photos where they're ground flat wondering if thats what i should be using

To the best of my knowledge, no one (around here) has seen what TJ is going to offer so how they are ground is sheer speculation at this time.
The bits described in your link are for making angled and tapered holes in the seats of Windsor styled chairs. Said bits are intended for use only in a hand brace, hence the tapered square shank.
The following are my personal observations:

Reground spade bits
advantages: cheap, can be shaped to any profile you want.
disadvantages: difficult to get perfectly ground to prevent the cutting from being done by only one edge, have a tendency to leave a rougher finish.

Reground twist bits
advantages: cut quickly and smoothly
disadvantages: expensive, difficult to grind/resharpen without proper equipment (especially with a curved taper).

Spoon bits
advantages: primarily intended to be used in shape first/drill second applications. Properly ground and used they will leave a very smooth bore.The main advantage
of the spoon bit is the ability to change direction (within limits) since the bit cuts along its entire length. The flutes on a twist bit are not intended to cut but rather to carry out the chips being created at the tip. That being said, one of the favored methods of creating the "funnel" in stems is to use the flutes of a small diameter bit that is pulled out of the hole with side force being applied. Not something I would want to do with a large diameter bit tho.

disadvantages: expensive, steep learning curve (read can be dangerous if you have not mastered that curve), if one is not shaping first and drilling second they offer no appreciable advantages over modified twist drills.

Again, these are my personal observations and others may not agree with me which is fine. As they say, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. I do not own any spoon bits so my opinions are formed by being on the outside looking in and statements made by others.
Chas.

[e Markle]

Well, apparently I missed all the fun on this thread.

In the immortal words of Cartman, "Screw you guys; I'm going home."

"MEEH! HOOOOOME."

[oklahoma red]

Well, apparently I missed all the fun on this thread.

In the immortal words of Cartman, "Screw you guys; I'm going home."

"MEEH! HOOOOOME."

See what you miss when you're out dicking around making pipes instead of spending quality time in here?!
Chas.

[archaggelosmichail]

I've made my first pipe with the shape-first process the last 3 days, and I really enjoyed it.

I've used pilot hole until 12mm when an egg shaped burr -Bo Nordh style- and it was the only hard part and really stressfull....so some spoon bits designed by J.Alan are going to be purchased soon.

I choose Jeff bits cause in his demo video they seem to cut well.I would like to read a review from some owners of them.

For marking I intend to buy a center finder and a cheap laser lever.

Which type of center finder will work better? Bullzeye or Classic


And finally which lever type is good for pipemaking? Multifunction with side laser line or straight