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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:57 pm 
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I started yet another billiard and this is where I am at. It's at a real rough stage but I think any comments and feedback here would go a long way in continuing the process on this particular billiard stummel. I know, I know lots of work ahead of me.
Thanks all for the great help.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Location: Zimmerman, MN
The best advice I can give you is to train your eyes to see lines. At this stage of the game, you'll need to stop and check a reference often. Once you have the shape fully in your head, you can shape start to finish in one go.

When I say reference, I mean spend the money to buy a billiard worth copying. Or borrow one if that's not an option. Use calipers and protractors to measure angles and distances between reference points. Take your time shaping, especially as you approach the final shape. If you have an ideal shaping setup, I'd expect the shaping process to take you upwards of 6 hours. If it's less than ideal, it could easily be twice that. Pay attention to every single detail, every radius, every line, every curve. Once you "get it" those little details can be played with because you know the rules you're breaking. Until you get it, though, strive for a perfect forgery and don't give yourself a pass if you think it's close.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Thanks Jeremiah, I have a Dunhill Bruyere and a Sasieni I will use.
I forgot to post a bottom picture.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Jeremiah, Thank you for your advice. Wow! I did exactly what you said. I got out my protractor and squares and started measuring angles.
Wow! Your comments were not just a light bulb moment but a lightning bolt moment!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Looking at your stummel at its present stage, I think you are rushing things. I am guessing that things are going to be a little tight with that “receding chin”.
When I start a billiard, I work the stummel into a poker shape first and establish the cylinders of the bowl and the shank first. (Then I drill, but you follow your sequence) This gives me the guidelines to shape the bottom of the bowl and to sculpt the transition. This is pretty much what the lathe guys do.
When you have those two cylinders established and drilled, you will have datum points from which to take those measurements.
DocAitch

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" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:42 am 
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Location: Latvia, Ogre
I can see that you are moving forward! I'm no expert, I'm quite inexperienced, but I want to stress out what Sandahl said. You need to take your time on the initial shaping, the shank/bowl junction need to be crispy (I think) It's one of the key elements to making a good looking billiard.

Don't be afraid to cut some more material, just work your way from cutting out chunks of briar down to fine tuning the shape while barely touching the sanding wheel with briar and rotating the pipe more actively.

This is of course easily said than done. But regarding the stummel the shank should be cylindrical or slightly conical. Sorry for the poor doodle.

Keep working you'll get there one step at a time! I haven't made a great billiard myself, so I'm still trying to get there too


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Last edited by Janka on Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Doc, I don't know if I can recover the chin line but for what's it worth, here are a few update pics of where I am currently at.
Thanks again for all the comments. I don't have a wheel, just a 1"x30" belt and my hand files. Lots of wobbles still I know and still lots of material removal.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Oh crap! I'm sorry I'm sorry! I forgot to re-size my photos. I'm sorry!
:shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Here are the pics resized.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:54 pm 
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The lines have definitely improved.
A coarse wheel is quite simple to fashion. A motor, arbor ($6-7), a Jacob’s chuck, and a plastic sanding disc ( Kolbalt ~$14) and adhesive nicked discs. I use cat litter containers as a hood and a shop vac for dust. I can send a photo if you PM me.
French wheels are nice but not totally necessary.
The shank/stem unit is best cut with a file, not a wheel. As an exercise, do one of George Dibos’ “death prisms”, or simply cut a piece of rod or dowel into an octagon or hexagon prism. Long strokes with a file held at about a 45 degree angle will get those lines straightened out once you get the hang of it.
Keep at it, it takes a while to develop your technique.
DocAitch

_________________
"Hettinger, if you stamp 'hand made' on a dog turd, some one will buy it."
-Charles Hollyday, pipe maker, reluctant mentor, and curmudgeon
" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:11 am 
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Thanks folks for all the help. Since I pretty much destroyed the chin I'm going to put this one in my reject drawer and start over tomorrow morning.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:30 am 
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Looks better! I think that if the chin had a bit more material then you could make an awesome billiard out of this one. Try to finish it, you could still learn a lot on stem work. Smoke it, analyze problems and think of a way to improve.

What docaitch said, a sanding disc is very convenient and relatively cheap, compered to a proper french wheel. I've used an old bench grinder and hooked it up with a velcro pad and put on a sticky pad sandpaper discs. Not ideal, but better than a short, hard sanding belt. Can't wait to see your next billiard!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:58 am 
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This is wisdom. Too many people try to make a pipe that's not what they were aiming at. When you're sure you've missed the mark, starting over is the fastest path to learning.

shikano53 wrote:
Thanks folks for all the help. Since I pretty much destroyed the chin I'm going to put this one in my reject drawer and start over tomorrow morning.

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Fail early, fail often. Your success depends on it.

Jeremiah Sandahl
http://sandahlpipe.com


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Just just one final comment. Doc was kind enough to share a few pics with me and he has inspired me to see if I can find a used motor somewhere.
Here is what I do/use. I don't know if this is correct and I've only tested it a bit because I'm fearful of gouging the briar on the edge of the pad. These are just 6" $6.00 a pop rubber sanding wheels that I glued different grits on the back. What I do is attach them into my chuck and then put my chuck in the headstock. If this is way wrong let me know and I'll work at getting that electric motor.
OOPs I don't mean I put it in the briar holding chuck, I put in my key less bit chuck.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Those wheels look like they'd work better for getting into corners if you could take the edge on the back down to a "V". Either way, it's not really the ideal setup. For rough shaping, I use a 7" fiber-backed disc (https://www.harborfreight.com/7-in-back ... 60427.html) with one of these: https://www.harborfreight.com/4-12-in-3 ... 69615.html for the sandpaper. The only trick was finding a combination of bolts and washers to fit into my arbor, which I believe you can get from Steve Norse.
I also use a french wheel on a separate motor, which works great. If I had to pick just one shaping tool, though, I'd keep a 1x30 belt sander. If you run 120 grit belts, you can finish by hand after it comes off the belt. These belts are the best: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-SGBlaze ... QqQCCURwaA

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Fail early, fail often. Your success depends on it.

Jeremiah Sandahl
http://sandahlpipe.com


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Thanks Jeremiah, Great information and links.


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