Oil Curing

For discussion of the drilling and shaping of the stummel.
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PremalChheda
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by PremalChheda »

Sasquatch wrote:PS would this be a good time to argue that the stem is more important than the stummel for how a pipe smokes and tastes?
Yes, and it is only in the last inch...
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PremalChheda
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by PremalChheda »

LatakiaLover wrote:
Sasquatch wrote:PPS I fucked around with straight heat-curing for awhile, dried some stummels RIGHT out. Light as a feather they were.

And about 3 months later, all the tenons were loose because the pipes had re-absorbed moisture from the air. One that went to the West Coast was unfixably loose, I'd never seen anything like it. Had to make a new stem.
I'd guess based on that that Joel & Co. rested his cooked blocks long enough to become dimensionally stable from atmospheric re-hydration.

Yes, after the cooking they were set aside for humidity stabilization just like the briar blocks from the GBD Kilns, and the Dunhill Stummels after oil extraction. It is crazy how much water weight is in a stummel. Almost 30%.
Premal Chheda
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WCannoy
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by WCannoy »

LatakiaLover wrote: I think that the impossibility of conducting such an experiment is seen as a marketing opportunity by those makers who are feature-minded.
Sigh...

This, LatakiaLover.

Look closely. This is where you say that makers who boast oil curing are full of shit.

Premal, Sas, Ernie, Tyler, Keilwerth, I know you guys, and I know your work. We've interacted outside of this forum. For the most part, we've even met in person. Premel and Tyler, we all go way back. Pipeguy, I don't know you that well outside of our messages about oil curing many months ago, but still I know who you are and where to find your work.

If any of you would like to tell me that I'm full of shit, I happily accept your voice of experience, as should all of the lurkers who are here to learn from that experience.

Despite trying to boost his credibility by inserting "fun facts", LatakiaLover seems to be, well, nobody. He should be asking questions, not answering them. Should he reveal himself in fact to be, say, Mark Tinsky or Michael Kabik trying to fuck with me, then I will humbly withdraw my assessment and respect his opinion as the voice of experience as well.
LatakiaLover
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by LatakiaLover »

WCannoy wrote:
LatakiaLover wrote: I think that the impossibility of conducting such an experiment is seen as a marketing opportunity by those makers who are feature-minded.
Sigh...

This, LatakiaLover.

Look closely. This is where you say that makers who boast oil curing are full of shit.

Premal, Sas, Ernie, Tyler, Keilwerth, I know you guys, and I know your work. We've interacted outside of this forum. For the most part, we've even met in person. Premel and Tyler, we all go way back. Pipeguy, I don't know you that well outside of our messages about oil curing many months ago, but still I know who you are and where to find your work.

If any of you would like to tell me that I'm full of shit, I happily accept your voice of experience, as should all of the lurkers who are here to learn from that experience.

Despite trying to boost his credibility by inserting "fun facts", LatakiaLover seems to be, well, nobody. He should be asking questions, not answering them. Should he reveal himself in fact to be, say, Mark Tinsky or Michael Kabik trying to fuck with me, then I will humbly withdraw my assessment and respect his opinion as the voice of experience as well.
So... you not knowing me is my problem, somehow?

I'm confused.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
LatakiaLover
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by LatakiaLover »

WCannoy wrote:
LatakiaLover wrote: I think that the impossibility of conducting such an experiment is seen as a marketing opportunity by those makers who are feature-minded.
Sigh...

This, LatakiaLover.

Look closely. This is where you say that makers who boast oil curing are full of shit.


All I've done is describe a situation in the abstract, as it appears to me. Anyone, anywhere, is free to consider that view however they like, including disregarding it altogether.

I'm getting really tired of you trying to characterize what I write as attacks on people by putting words in my mouth, Walt. First it was "idiots," now it's "full of shit." Stop it. It's one thing to criticize someone's ideas, quite another to criticize them or their character. Learn the fucking difference.

As for the subject under discussion, in pipe making or any other field, the burden of proof lies with those making claims, and speculation about the state of affairs when such proof is not provided is completely justified.
UFOs must be real. There's no other explanation for cats.
scotties22
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by scotties22 »

Does the mechanic not know just as much, if not more, than the manufacturer?


I can't see myself ever dabbling in oil curing. I see each piece of briar, and each pipe, as it's own being. Trying to reproduce smoking characteristics (from a flavor standpoint) from pipe to pipe takes the life away from the briar. They are different. Grown in different regions, climates.....and so forth. Hell, two bushes tweny yards apart will have different rainfall totals over any given year and therefore different characheristics. And yes, I am fully aware that the cutters process the blocks in a way as to extract as much resin as possible. Whats left is really a non-issue if you are sourcing materials form a respected cutter. As long as the engineering is sound the flavor of each piece of wood is what it is. IMHO.

And if you do achieve a perfect smoke from an oil cured pipe, could it be that it was just a fabulous piece of wood to begin with?
Am I Calamity Jane or Annie Oakley??...depends on the day.
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WCannoy
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by WCannoy »

scotties22 wrote:Does the mechanic not know just as much, if not more, than the manufacturer?
Perhaps... But is the mechanic qualified? Shadetree? Just some guy with a wrench?

I asked LatakiaLover who he was, and he suspiciously avoided the question. I can't keep all these aliases straight, hell, I do good enough to remember people's real names half the time. Good thing someone PM'd me with the skinny on LatakiaLover, AKA George.

Jezus George, all you had to say was "I'm the best pipe repairman in the world! I judge the KC contest... I'm f'n George!"

I hereby humbly retract my assessment that LatakiaLover is a nobody.
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baweaverpipes
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by baweaverpipes »

I've read the whole thread and see why I've shied away from the forum for a while.
I will say that this tread has been quite amusing and thank you for the chuckles!
I will impart one piece of information/hint.............ever made jerky?
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RadDavis
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by RadDavis »

Fuck you, Weaver.

Rad
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baweaverpipes
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by baweaverpipes »

RadDavis wrote:Fuck you, Weaver.

Rad
Thanks Rod, that really helps!
Now you'll have my curmudgeonly ass here more often :-D
LatakiaLover
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by LatakiaLover »

WCannoy wrote: I asked LatakiaLover who he was, and he suspiciously avoided the question.
No, I didn't. I said:
Latakialover wrote:I fix pipes. Refinish them, make stems, that sort of thing.

WCannoy wrote: Jezus George, all you had to say was "I'm the best pipe repairman in the world! I judge the KC contest... I'm f'n George!"
No wonder we strike sparks on this board. You and I see the world in profoundly different ways. First of all, I have no idea where I "rank" as a repairman, nor do I care. I just try to be the best there's ever been, and whatever comes of it will come of it.

The contest judging is a job I took to help out a friend who was working his ass off to make a project he'd dreamed about for half his life come true. He does 99.9% of the 80+ hours of work that the event takes every year, while I just show up on contest day to look at stuff. BFD There's no way in Hell I'd ever misrepresent that situation to somehow benefit from it, or take credit for it.

As for that last bit, if I was one of those people, I'd shoot myself. Really.
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Sasquatch
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by Sasquatch »

How many assholes we got on this board anyhow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
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baweaverpipes
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by baweaverpipes »

Sasquatch wrote:How many assholes we got on this board anyhow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4
You, Rod Davies and ERmarkable :wink:
scotties22
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by scotties22 »

Sasshole.........you're funny :lol:
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caskwith
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by caskwith »

baweaverpipes wrote:
Sasquatch wrote:How many assholes we got on this board anyhow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4
You, Rod Davies and ERmarkable :wink:
Yay I'm not an asshole :D
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d.huber
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by d.huber »

caskwith wrote:
baweaverpipes wrote:
Sasquatch wrote:How many assholes we got on this board anyhow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4
You, Rod Davies and ERmarkable :wink:
Yay I'm not an asshole :D
I think Bruce forgot to mention at least everyone else on the board.
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BLC
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Re: Oil Curing

Post by BLC »

Hello…its Danny…the asshole who kicked the hornets’ nest.

From passion comes greatness…I’m guessing there are a few great pipe makers here.

When I decided to revive a dead thread it was because of another along dead thread; once I seen this dead thread dots started forming in my mind. If the possibility of reading information that may be pointless/unusable to you is upsetting… please stop reading now.

Note: I have no advice on pipe making for anyone. I’m here to learn.

Old Thread...have not figured out how you guys do the copy thing yet:
I have noticed that if a pipe sits for a while in a humid environment, the stem fit will tend to loosen, and conversely, if a pipe sits in a dry environment, the stem fit tends to tighten.

Has anyone else observed this? It is just the opposite of what I would have expected to occur.



This topic was/is very familiar to me in what may appear to be an unrelated discipline to some of you. This also, at this point, may just be a big let down.

I believed there are lessons to be learned almost everywhere; if we keep an open mind. I’ve been turning wood for years and am always experimenting with something. Wood moves. Controlling, and working with that movement is a preoccupation of most turners. Controlling the moisture loss/absorption that creates the tension differentials is very important. I like a challenge. A few years back I took advantage of thousands of Apple trees being taken down here in Ontario. I grabbed a few truckloads of Apple wood. I offered some to many turners…only the newbies wanted it. All the experienced turners couldn’t be bothered. Because of the trauma placed on an Apple tree by humans during its life span there develops a LOT of tensions in the tree itself. A green turned Apple wood bowl seldom survives to the second stage…and I was told this by many a turner. Hell bent…I found a reasonable way to at least keep them from ripping themselves apart…sometimes within hours. Oil…Hemp oil…polymerized Hemp oil to be specific in this case (almost any oil should work). Loosely said: polymerized oil is boiled in the absence of Oxygen. The molecules separate and once exposed to Oxygen again they join back up…curing. Most oils you see on the market have hardeners mixed in to speed up this process. (read the AAW web site for info on oils and hardeners) I wished to minimize the amount of hardeners in my salads bowls but didn’t want to wait the month-plus it takes for this process to occur. Note: the products I’m referring to does not come from a big box store. The mixture I came up with was 1 part (acceptable) oil with hardener, to 5 parts polymerized hemp oil. This stabilized the wood cells and controlled my warping and dried/cured within a day. Basically oils are the Holy Grail for bowl turners. If oil is reapplied appropriately your bowl will move (warp/expand/shrink) from winter to summer without much notice. And if people can stop themselves from putting them in the dishwasher they many never know.

I can see this process may be in some small part a help to those of you who make pipes for people who live in different parts of the world with completely different moisture levels…at the time of sale or seasonally. All wood is hygroscopic in nature and will attempt to reach atmospheric equilibrium…Briar maybe the best at it. It is a burl/root; most of the burls that I’ve turned into bowls (none with Briar) have been dimensionally stable when speaking of warping; they do shrink and expand with moisture. If mixed with something a lot of pipes makers already use, like say…shellac, and the oil of your choice, you should be able to stabilize most of movement that does occur within the mortise. The shellac should greatly slow the oil conditioning from leaving the mortise area of your pipe. Lighting a fire in it might be a different matter altogether? I'm confident the oils will leave the bowl area. No other opinion on this as I’ve never had the extra briar or even thought of doing it; until I stumbled onto this thread.

Note 2: I have no advice on pipe making for anyone. I’m here to learn.

My experience with oil/finishes on wood and stone leads me to believe that there is an advantage to warming up your piece first for deeper/faster penetration. The piece does not need to be hot…just warm. Room temperature oils have worked fine for me…I’ve never felt the need to heat up my oils. I get oil bleeding through 3/8ince of bowl wall with cold oil and warm wood all the time. For those of you wanting to know…bowl turners use shellac all the time to stabilize wood that may be too soft for what they want to do. It works great for this and is a lot cheaper than CA glue; and easier to mix in stain with.


Note 3: I may have more apple wood chunks than I know what to do with...anyone playing with apple? Free of course.

Apple wood bowl encased in bee wax for two years to control stage one.
Image

Apple wood bowl stabilized and finished with these oils.
Image

If all this didn't bore you...and want to confirm I may know at least a little about finish...there is no FB account required by you to check out mine. https://www.facebook.com/BurntLeafCreations

I've had great fun watching this post. Hope there are questions.

Happy New Year

Edit: I've had a few questions thrown my way so I'll they and address them here also.

This oil that I use in my salad bowls does have a sent to it...it smells good to my customers...it may smell bad to yours. I don't know of any natural oil that drys hard...this one included.

I've reread my post to see if my main point was made clear. The main ddea I tried to get to was the shellac (your cut of choice) that most pipe makes use can be premixed with what ever oil you already use (along with your final stain if applicable) and allowed to soak in as a final step. With the oil mixed with your shellac you will find the oil drys faster and is trapped in the wood for much longer. NO IDEA how this will affect the smoking...but I'm betting it will help the tenon / mortice fit concerns.

Sorry if this wasn't clear in my endless rant.

Dan
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