spoon-bits.com

Discussions of tools wether you bought them or made them yourself. Anything from screwdrivers to custom chucks and drilling rigs.
Oakbear
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spoon-bits.com

Post by Oakbear »

Has anybody tried these yet?

I've not used spoon bits before, using flat bits or turning tools for the chamber.
These look pretty cool, especially with the hollow tip, and I'm thinking about ordering. Any thoughts or advice?
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PremalChheda
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by PremalChheda »

Oakbear wrote:Has anybody tried these yet?

I've not used spoon bits before, using flat bits or turning tools for the chamber.
These look pretty cool, especially with the hollow tip, and I'm thinking about ordering. Any thoughts or advice?
Looks good, but, sharpening may become an issue after some time. I would like to try one out and compare it to the J. Alan bits. I like the ease of sharpening on the J. Alan bits.
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d.huber
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by d.huber »

Based on the demo video on the website, they appear to cut very well. I contacted the maker to ask about sharpening and invited him to participate in the thread.

Here's the demo video from his site:

http://www.dshpipes.com

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Tyler
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by Tyler »

I don't understand the appeal of a small, single pilot hole. I intentionally use at least three interations. That gives me a chance to look and adjust if I need to to nail the drilling. Also, the result shots at the end of the video do not look like clean holes to me. The dead-center of the bowl is missed, and there is beveling in the chamber, indicating the pipe was advanced at different angles in the course of drilling. This would be easy to do with a tiny pilot hole that isn't sifficient for tracking.

In other news, I don't get the hole in the tip. Did I miss a description of its purpose?
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by pipeguy »

The depression in the tip IMHO looks like a shovel edge to aid in cutting By you're right Tyler it isn't explained
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by wdteipen »

Looks like the would cut better but I agree that not being able to sharpen them would count me out.
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oklahoma red
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by oklahoma red »

The intent of the divot is definitely to make them cut better at the tip. Spoon bits are basically reamers and don't cut real great beyond the bottom of the pilot hole (at least in my experience).
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Tyler
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by Tyler »

oklahoma red wrote:Spoon bits are basically reamers and don't cut real great beyond the bottom of the pilot hole (at least in my experience).
And that's a very good thing. I recently demo'd a spoon bit at the machinist's request, and had issues with the bit. The tip cut well, but the sides didn't ream well. These were major strikes against the bit. I tried the bit on two pipes, and had to switch to my old bits part way through drilling in order not to ruin the pipe. I fear, but have no way of knowing, the same would be true of this bit.
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by K.Anastasopoulos »

The hollow tip of the spoon bit is the secret for a very easy and nice cut of the wood. I tried some spoon bits in the past without the hollow tip and it was a hard and dangerous experience for me. It was a pleasant surprise when I tried the new spoon bits and I saw how easy and smooth they cut without too much pressure.
I made a 4 mm pilot drilling first and that was enough for a straight drilling with the spoon bit. Still you can make corrections giving pressure to a different angle of the pipe.
As for the sharpening, the best way is with diamond files and water, or you can use a 600 sandpaper on a flat surface.
Ask me anything else you want and I will be happy to answer if I can.
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W.Pastuch
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by W.Pastuch »

I think it's a bad idea to assume that you can make corrections in the direction of the hole while drilling. In my experience you need a well centered pilot hole, as big as possible- I use 10mm. If the pilot hole is centered then a simple design spoon bit (flat grind, full external surface) will follow that hole and give you a good final geometry.
Also the way the pipe is handled while drilling on the demo video- I would never try to do it like that. The way I saw it done and the way I like to do it is to hold the pipe for your dear life- strong grip, even and controlled pressure only along the axis of the bit, supported by the tailstock. If you fiddle aroung with the pipe, change the angle and apply pressure from different points, that's what will fuck up the drilling. Those problems might be solved by a special spoon bit (like the one we are talking about), but I think they can be avoided by using a different technique.

Still, the bit looks nicely made and I'm sure it works very well, so I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing the design. I might buy one to try it out just for fun.
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d.huber
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by d.huber »

Tyler wrote:Also, the result shots at the end of the video do not look like clean holes to me. The dead-center of the bowl is missed, and there is beveling in the chamber, indicating the pipe was advanced at different angles in the course of drilling.
I think that this is likely an issue with technique instead of the drill bit itself. I haven't tried them, so I'm unsure, but the walls of the chamber look very smooth after the cut, which is what I was looking for.

I've already received a reply from Dimitris which included a video on sharpening his bits:
Dimitris wrote:Hi David and thank you for your interest.

Sharpening those tools, it's not an issue and doesn't affect the longevity of the tool in any way. All that you need is a cheap set of smooth files and some sandpaper. Actually, it's so easy that you can touch up the tip before each use if you want. Yes, eventually the tool, it will become dull, but trust me, this is a cost effective tool and needs less sharpening than standard tools.

My account is still inactive at pipe makers forum so, I'm sending you a short video that I've made.



Let me know if you need anything else...

Thank You!
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d.huber
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by d.huber »

I ordered the 19mm parabolic spoon bit to try out. Once I receive it and test it I'll post my experience here.
http://www.dshpipes.com

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W.Pastuch
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by W.Pastuch »

That's a very weird sharpening process... Seems like a good way to destroy your cutting edges.
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Tyler
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by Tyler »

d.huber wrote:
Tyler wrote:Also, the result shots at the end of the video do not look like clean holes to me. The dead-center of the bowl is missed, and there is beveling in the chamber, indicating the pipe was advanced at different angles in the course of drilling.
I think that this is likely an issue with technique instead of the drill bit itself. I haven't tried them, so I'm unsure, but the walls of the chamber look very smooth after the cut, which is what I was looking for.

I've already received a reply from Dimitris which included a video on sharpening his bits:
Dimitris wrote:Hi David and thank you for your interest.

Sharpening those tools, it's not an issue and doesn't affect the longevity of the tool in any way. All that you need is a cheap set of smooth files and some sandpaper. Actually, it's so easy that you can touch up the tip before each use if you want. Yes, eventually the tool, it will become dull, but trust me, this is a cost effective tool and needs less sharpening than standard tools.

My account is still inactive at pipe makers forum so, I'm sending you a short video that I've made.



Let me know if you need anything else...

Thank You!
Dimitris
Tell Dmitris to email me if he wants to be activated.

I don't disagree that the beveling is do to methodology, but I'm telling you, this issue is EASY to have when the nose cuts without a care in the world about where the pilot is. I just experienced it.
I'm not saying a different methodology couldn't be developed that would make a super-sharp bull-nose the answer, but I don't want it for my methodology.
Dimitris
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by Dimitris »

Hi Guys and thank you for your interest and the invitation.

Please excuse my English

Just the basics -

Basic cutting principle -


A knife-shaped tool, harder than the material that has to be cut moves to the opposite direction of the cutting material.

Basic cutting tool geometry and materials -

Neutral and Negative cutting angles:

For hard materials we need stiffer tools to obtain the cutting forces and maintain tool’s shape intact for a long period of time. The disadvantage is that we need more horsepower to take the cut and a really rigid set-up to hold the part. This is definitely not the case here.


Positive cutting angles:

With softer materials we can start to take advantage of narrow cutting tools that demands less horsepower, less rigid set-up and produce better surface finish. That sounds good to me.



Cutting edge -

Sharp edges can remove material easier, but they don’t last for long. A very sharp edge it will break easily. Actually, this is your only weapon against the bad choice of the cutting angle tool. That’s why you have an obsession with diamond files. You desperately try to make your tool sharper. If you sharpen only the edges, eventually you will turn your tool at a negative cutting angle tool that makes things even whores, so you have to sharpen the entire surface of the tool.
At the other hand, even a tiny radius on the edge can increase significantly tool’s life and it’s definitely better than a broken edge. A good choice on tool’s geometry allows a small radius on the edge. You don’t need diamond files.



Small or big pilot holes? -

It’s your choice… Test both is my opinion.
You can also try a deep small pilot hole and a big but narrow hole at the top of it. The tip of the tool will meet a smaller pilot hole at first and as it goes deeper the sides of the tool will touch the sides of the bigger hole and will self-align itself. We often use that technique at hand taping.

Choose what fit’s you.

Path corrections -

We all make mistakes, especially newbies. There is room for corrections if you apply enough force on the tool.

It’s easy to lose course or the tool cuts wildly -

That’s why I didn’t change the neutral cutting angles to the sides of the tool, to prevent this from happening. If you start straight you will need force to change your path and ruin your work.


I came to this design by trying to solve my customer’s problems and based on their feedback I have succeeded. This tool should be a better tool, at least in some degree. Otherwise I can’t explain the smile on my customer’s faces.

Although if you test my tools and you believe that we have to make any changes or we can improve thinks in any way I’m all ears.

You can also choose a standard spoon bit if you wish, without the hollow tip or even send me your own drawings. Just add a note to your order with your preference.

Thank you once again and let me know if you have any other questions.

Dimitris
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PremalChheda
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by PremalChheda »

I can see the advantage of having the extra angle on your spherical bits compared to others that have been made throughout the years. However on the parabolic/tapered nose ones, the area that is angled on the face is much smaller and I am guessing the advantage is not there versus the other spoon bit designs. Have you or one of your customers been able to compare to flat faced spoon bits?
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by Oakbear »

I've ordered one of the round tip ones. Will report back.
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by Dimitris »

PremalChheda wrote:I can see the advantage of having the extra angle on your spherical bits compared to others that have been made throughout the years. However on the parabolic/tapered nose ones, the area that is angled on the face is much smaller and I am guessing the advantage is not there versus the other spoon bit designs. Have you or one of your customers been able to compare to flat faced spoon bits?
Yes, we have tested both styles of bits and the hollow tip bit is superior. The hollow tip diameter is enough to help the spoon bit penetrate without a problem, but you should expect some resistance at the end, it's normal. A 22mm standard spoon bit actually uses only 17.25mm of cutting edge when cutting. Long parabolic spoon bits can reach up to 35mm. We can make a bigger hollow, but other problems will arise. You can watch the video above, this is the style of bit that you are asking.
Last edited by Dimitris on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by Dimitris »

Oakbear wrote:I've ordered one of the round tip ones. Will report back.

Thank you Oakbear!
caskwith
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Re: spoon-bits.com

Post by caskwith »

Are these bits hardened?
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