my third pipe complete

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Charl
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by Charl »

:lol:
wdteipen
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by wdteipen »

This is why so many experienced pipe makers have stopped giving critique and advice on this forum and why I seldom do anymore.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach." -- Cool Hand Luke
Wayne Teipen
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slowroll
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by slowroll »

wdteipen wrote:This is why so many experienced pipe makers have stopped giving critique and advice on this forum and why I seldom do anymore.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach." -- Cool Hand Luke
I will make one last comment. I asked questions such as "what can be the tool marks issue when I can't detect any roughness?," and I was castigated quite roundly for obstinacy. Sasquatch offered no reason until after much vituperation he threw out a reason. If one doesn't get the how or why, but instead gets insulted for asking honest questions, I guess there will be a failure to communicate. If you don't have the time to answer that, then don't, or say so, don't piss on my leg for the query.
DocAitch
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by DocAitch »

Take a deep breath, Slowroll, then take a break.
Then take out your sand paper and resand the pipe. Your sense of touch is just not picking up that last layer of damaged wood, while the stain, the camera, and experienced eyes do. We have all seen those marks on our own pipes, and we have all sanded down a pipe which we had supposed was "finished".
When my pipe is returned from KC, the first thing that's going to happen is that I am going to attack it with files and sand paper because I saw something in a photo which I missed in my hurry to finish it.
Shit happens. This is an opportunity for growth.
DocAitch
"Hettinger, if you stamp 'hand made' on a dog turd, some one will buy it."
-Charles Hollyday, pipe maker, reluctant mentor, and curmudgeon
" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy
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W.Pastuch
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by W.Pastuch »

Well now this is going to be one legendary fucking thread haha :D guys, don't give up so fast, there's still a lot to discuss, we've barely gotten to talk about shop bears! :lol:

Slowroll, just one thing which you clearly do not understand. Briar machines and sands very differently from metals, hell, it even machines and sands differently from other woods! The "tool marks" notion is very different in our understanding than what a machinist thinks when he says tool marks. Tool marks on briar show up after staining. If you kept this pipe a virgin finish (no stain) nobody would have noticed those spots. When you sand a piece of briar and you have an area that is just ever so slight of a low spot due to imperfect shaping or imperfect initial sanding, that area might stay scratched and thus more open to stain penetration even after you sand over it ferociously with higher grits. That's why it will become a dark spot. The only solution is to go back to a lower grit and refinish the whole pipe. Take a look at the perfect staining of some high grade pipemakers. You know why the finishes are so perfect? Because they know exactly how to sand briar, the amount of pressure, the direction of the strokes, etc. The point is, you really need to learn how briar works in terms of finishing or you will be getting shitty results.
If we were really condescending we would have just told you that it's an ugly fucking pipe, 'cause it is ;)
There's nothing wrong with that though! Just go make more and forget that you are good at anything else, assume you are a baby learning to read, it will be much easier than assuming you're a good machinist therefore you need to do well in pipemaking right off the bat.
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Ratimus
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by Ratimus »

W.Pastuch wrote:Just go make more and forget that you are good at anything else, assume you are a baby learning to read, it will be much easier than assuming you're a good machinist therefore you need to do well in pipemaking right off the bat.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts when reading this thread.

The tool marks are obvious. Maybe they're low grit sandpaper scratches. Maybe they're tearout from working on the grain "face." Our file marks. There's a million possible causes. What's more important than how they got there is how to get rid of them and how to prevent them in the future: sand better.

Just make more pipes. You'll figure it out. Eventually you might realize "hey, I have to be careful when I do X, because that causes tool marks." But just looking at your picture, no one can diagnose the cause. You can't feel them, but they are visible. You said you didn't sand them. Fine. But if you did sand them, they wouldn't be there. That's all anybody is saying.

As far as LL's recommendation on making a pipe-shaped pipe (and your assertion that you choose to make this shape because of its geometric aspects), not all geometry is created equal. There are elements of a billiard that are common to nearly all pipes, and not really seen outside the world of pipes. There's more to it than just a couple cones or cylinders or whatever. There's nuance; that's exactly the point. Working on traditional shapes will teach you to see that nuance.

Also, do shop-bear farts smell like stinky ebonite?
Ryan Richardson
R2 Pipes/Ryan's Luxury Goods
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"You can't convince a stupid person that what he's doing is stupid, because the stupidness inside him is telling him that it's smart"
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TreverT
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by TreverT »

wdteipen wrote:This is why so many experienced pipe makers have stopped giving critique and advice on this forum and why I seldom do anymore.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach." -- Cool Hand Luke

Ding ding ding ding ding...
Happy Smoking,
Trever Talbert
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The Smoking Yeti
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by The Smoking Yeti »

I just came out of PMF retirement to say.... wtf?!

It's the same damn story I've heard a million times. You think you're special, you can't take a critique, you spend the entire fucking thread spinning the critiques and trying to act like a sanding mark isn't a fucking sanding mark.

To all you newbies out there- do NOT do as Slowroll says, and do NOT do as Slowroll Does.

Also, Wayne, thanks for using me as a positive role model. It was kinda creepy, kinda sweet.
My pipemaking stream of conscience/ website:

http://yetipipe.tumblr.com/
wdteipen
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by wdteipen »

The Smoking Yeti wrote:I just came out of PMF retirement to say.... wtf?!

It's the same damn story I've heard a million times. You think you're special, you can't take a critique, you spend the entire fucking thread spinning the critiques and trying to act like a sanding mark isn't a fucking sanding mark.

To all you newbies out there- do NOT do as Slowroll says, and do NOT do as Slowroll Does.

Also, Wayne, thanks for using me as a positive role model. It was kinda creepy, kinda sweet.

I know what you mean. It's creepy and sweet when Bannard does it to me except you actually deserve it.
Wayne Teipen
Teipen Handmade Briar Pipes
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The Smoking Yeti
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by The Smoking Yeti »

wdteipen wrote:

I know what you mean. It's creepy and sweet when Bannard does it to me except you actually deserve it.
It probably rings hollow when he says it, cus' he standing behind you in the shower.
My pipemaking stream of conscience/ website:

http://yetipipe.tumblr.com/
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TreverT
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by TreverT »

Is it OK if I just start talking about Godzilla movies now?
Happy Smoking,
Trever Talbert
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Sasquatch
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by Sasquatch »

The Smoking Yeti wrote:
wdteipen wrote:

I know what you mean. It's creepy and sweet when Bannard does it to me except you actually deserve it.
It probably rings hollow when he says it, cus' he standing behind you in the shower.

Just helpin with those tough to reach areas. :thumbsup:
ALL YOUR PIPE ARE BELONG TO US!
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Sasquatch
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by Sasquatch »

TreverT wrote:Is it OK if I just start talking about Godzilla movies now?
I dunno who the fuck you are, Mr T Albert, but this is pretty much a Godzilla-free zone.

Image
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TreverT
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by TreverT »

Image

Image

There, I just made the whole forum 3.7 times better.

While many fans diss it, I feel Godzilla 2000 is an underrated entry in the franchise. It did a solid job of introducing the millennium Goji suit, gave us a fun and straightforward plot with a whole new monster, and even ran on cinema screens in the US for the first time since the Godzilla 984. Perhaps it's not as "serious" a film on an intellectual level as something like Godzilla vs Biollante, but it's a solid 90 minutes of popcorn fun, and that always gets good marks from this reviewer.
Happy Smoking,
Trever Talbert
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RickB
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by RickB »

wdteipen wrote:This is why so many experienced pipe makers have stopped giving critique and advice on this forum and why I seldom do anymore.
The Smoking Yeti wrote:To all you newbies out there- do NOT do as Slowroll says, and do NOT do as Slowroll Does.
Serious follow up from a newbie who does his best to take and implement the feedback he's given and is giving his trust to this forum in terms of learning to make pipes I can feel proud of: seeing as there has been a sort of exodus of more experienced guys who got frustrated in having their help fall on deaf ears, is this still the best easily accessible way to get critique? I feel like the help I've received has been tremendous, but I know things have changed from the good old days.

The Facebook page for the forum is good but seems to lack the people who'll be honest with you (and has a different type of drive-by-posters - guys who make super rustic pipes, think they're the bee's knees, have no interest in learning real pipe making, and then drop back out into the ether). Instagram is maybe worse with the non-stop circle jerking and multitude of chubby stubby pokers with 6mm bite zones (only $125!) and badly shaped devil anuses. Is the best way to get critique these days just to bide my time until I can bring my pipes to someone for them to shit on in person?
Chronicling my general ineptitude and misadventures in learning pipe making here: https://www.instagram.com/rustynailbriars/
wdteipen
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by wdteipen »

RickB wrote:
wdteipen wrote:This is why so many experienced pipe makers have stopped giving critique and advice on this forum and why I seldom do anymore.
The Smoking Yeti wrote:To all you newbies out there- do NOT do as Slowroll says, and do NOT do as Slowroll Does.
Serious follow up from a newbie who does his best to take and implement the feedback he's given and is giving his trust to this forum in terms of learning to make pipes I can feel proud of: seeing as there has been a sort of exodus of more experienced guys who got frustrated in having their help fall on deaf ears, is this still the best easily accessible way to get critique? I feel like the help I've received has been tremendous, but I know things have changed from the good old days.

The Facebook page for the forum is good but seems to lack the people who'll be honest with you (and has a different type of drive-by-posters - guys who make super rustic pipes, think they're the bee's knees, have no interest in learning real pipe making, and then drop back out into the ether). Instagram is maybe worse with the non-stop circle jerking and multitude of chubby stubby pokers with 6mm bite zones (only $125!) and badly shaped devil anuses. Is the best way to get critique these days just to bide my time until I can bring my pipes to someone for them to shit on in person?
There's not much better critique than hands on, in person critique from an experienced and reputable pipe maker willing to be generous with their time and attention. It's also most constructive to find one that isn't going to sugar coat their critique. I'd be willing to bet that every experienced pipe maker on this forum has had devastating critiques from veterans when they were new to the craft. What you do with that critique will determine your future in pipemaking.

Next to that, this forum is still the next best thing. While many of the uber experienced pipemakers are no longer active here. There are still many here that gained from their insights, instruction, advice, and honest critique and are willing to pass it on to the next up-and-comers. Most of us want to see our craft flourish and it won't do so if we don't pass down knowledge of the craft to the next generation of makers.
Wayne Teipen
Teipen Handmade Briar Pipes
http://www.teipenpipes.com
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RickB
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by RickB »

wdteipen wrote:There's not much better critique than hands on, in person critique from an experienced and reputable pipe maker willing to be generous with their time and attention. It's also most constructive to find one that isn't going to sugar coat their critique. I'd be willing to bet that every experienced pipe maker on this forum has had devastating critiques from veterans when they were new to the craft. What you do with that critique will determine your future in pipemaking.

Next to that, this forum is still the next best thing. While many of the uber experienced pipemakers are no longer active here. There are still many here that gained from their insights, instruction, advice, and honest critique and are willing to pass it on to the next up-and-comers. Most of us want to see our craft flourish and it won't do so if we don't pass down knowledge of the craft to the next generation of makers.
Understood, thank you. I definitely don't want to downplay how grateful I am for the time and effort people have spent giving me help here, but also realize that hands on critique offers a whole other level of thoroughness and detail. I'm fortunate enough to work about a mile from David Huber's shop, and he was extremely generous in letting me swing by and in offering some in-person critique. Gentleman and a scholar, that one.

That being said, I also won't try to bring him anything else to look at until I feel like I'm skilled enough to put what he (and you all) have told me into action better. The last thing I want to do is waste the time of people who are being generous enough to share it.
Chronicling my general ineptitude and misadventures in learning pipe making here: https://www.instagram.com/rustynailbriars/
DocAitch
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by DocAitch »

I heartily agree with these last three posts.
I am still in the 'geometric shapes' stage and only getting some of the 'nuanced' arguments, but my pipe crafting has certainly improved after I began to appreciate the advice freely given on this forum.
It is difficult to receive and incorporate some of the criticism offered here, and it requires a good slice of humble pie to make it palatable, but in the end, it is well worth it.
Very few newcomers to this forum have RickB's attitude, which is perfect for some one earnestly trying to learn a craft. Many of us have come with preconceived ideas and an unsupported belief in our own abilities and methods, and that makes us vulnerable to getting our noses bent out of shape.
I personally am grateful for those guys who do stick around and offer their expertise.
Thank you all.
DocAitch
"Hettinger, if you stamp 'hand made' on a dog turd, some one will buy it."
-Charles Hollyday, pipe maker, reluctant mentor, and curmudgeon
" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy
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RickB
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by RickB »

I appreciate that very much Doc. You've played a huge part in continuing to pay it forward and help me out.
Chronicling my general ineptitude and misadventures in learning pipe making here: https://www.instagram.com/rustynailbriars/
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TreverT
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Re: my third pipe complete

Post by TreverT »

Good grief, how many pipemakers *are* clustered here in NC now?
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Trever Talbert
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