#9

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Jakub P.
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#9

Post by Jakub P. »

My latest pipe. Thank you for any comments.

Self-critique:

- Stem leaves a lot to be desired. Working on it but without luck so far
- I forgot to taper the shank towards the stem

Is there anything else I could improve?


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"Making pipes is easy. Making GOOD pipes is hard. Just keep at it and never be satisfied" - George Dibos

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sandahlpipe
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Re: #9

Post by sandahlpipe »

What's going on with the middle of the bowl? Is it supposed to be a billiard bowl or a Rhodesian?
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CowboyTed
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Re: #9

Post by CowboyTed »

sandahlpipe wrote:What's going on with the middle of the bowl? Is it supposed to be a billiard bowl or a Rhodesian?
I'm amused by the frequency of comments like this. On a website that seems to be largely dedicated to making "artisan" pipes, why would you assume that the pipemaker intended a pipe to be a standard shape? It doesn't look like either a billiard or a rhodesian, and it doesn't appear that Jakub intended to make either. It's a good-looking pipe in a non-standard shape. It doesn't need to be a billiard or a rhodesian. It doesn't need to have a name. It doesn't need to fit into a box to be good-looking pipe.

Jakub, I don't see the shank as a problem. It looks good without any taper. Your finish work looks fantastic. The stem looks amusingly short, to my eye, when connected to such a long shank, but I'm assuming you intended that. I imagine smoking the pipe, and having my lips hit the saddle at the front of the stem. That would be mildly disconcerting, but it looks cool!

The "girth line" midway up the bowl looks like it is parallel to the rim in most of the photos, but it looks like it is parallel to the base in very first photo. That may result from a trick of the light, rather than misalignment. I suspect you turned that line on the lathe, so it's unlikely to be out of alignment, and more likely just an odd reflection in the photo. Or you may have a crooked spot in that line on the right side, right at the bottom of the vertical streak of light in the first photo.

Despite possible tricks in the lighting, your photography setup does a great job showing off the pipe.
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sandahlpipe
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Re: #9

Post by sandahlpipe »

What I assume is that anyone wanting to lay a claim to the "artist" part of artisan knows to make a plan and then execute the plan. If the plan was to make a billiard, make a billiard. If the plan was to make a rhodesian, make a rhodesian. If the plan was to make something else, that's fine, but this doesn't look to me like someone carefully thought out how to pull off an in-between shape. The bottom line: it doesn't look intentional. It looks somewhere between an accident and a mistake.

As for the taper, yep. It needs a taper, because having a consistent diameter the whole length of the shape makes it look shank-heavy.

And the button looks thick and a little lumpy.

And for the record, this isn't bad for a #8 pipe.
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kamkiel
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Re: #9

Post by kamkiel »

It looks like there was a problem shaping the the bottom half of the bowl. That is the part that can't be turned on a lathe. My guess is this wasn't the intended shape. In the future, try slowing things down a bit.

Also, check out some pictures online of the long shanked billiard family to get an idea on how long the stem should be. It would look more comfortable if the stem length was closer to the length of the bowl's height.
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Re: #9

Post by DocAitch »

Jakub
Technically, I think the stummel is very well done, with the criticism about the line on the right side. I also think the shank needs a slight taper, but it looks OK.
As far as what it is, I am in Cowboy Ted's corner on that. I don't think it matters what it's called or whether you planned it or not.
I am in the mode where I decide what it's going to be after it's partially rough shaped. I have several in the works that could be volcanos, brandies, or bent billiards, and several more that could be pokers, billiards, or Dublins. It depends on how things go, and where the flaws appear.
What does matter is crispness (clean lines and smooth surfaces), overall shape, balance, and finish. I think you generally hit it on crispness (with the exception of that line if that is a real wobble) and finish. The stem and shank don't work well together, so you didn't hit it on shape and balance.
Still it's very nice for an 8th pipe.
Jeremiah has a point in that this pipe would have benefitted from a bit of planning, at least with proportions between shank and stem. Kamkiel's suggestion that the stem be as long as the bowl is tall is a good one, as is Cowboy Ted's that the saddle might hit the Smoker's lip. The shank could be a little shorter. For no particular reason other than the obvious, I follow " the pipe cleaner rule" - if shank and stem are longer than a standard pipe cleaner, it's going too be a pain to run one through without disassembling the pipe ( or carrying longer cleaners).
Keep up the good work.
DocAitch
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Re: #9

Post by LatakiaLover »

CowboyTed wrote:
sandahlpipe wrote:What's going on with the middle of the bowl? Is it supposed to be a billiard bowl or a Rhodesian?
I'm amused by the frequency of comments like this. On a website that seems to be largely dedicated to making "artisan" pipes, why would you assume that the pipemaker intended a pipe to be a standard shape? It doesn't look like either a billiard or a rhodesian, and it doesn't appear that Jakub intended to make either. It's a good-looking pipe in a non-standard shape. It doesn't need to be a billiard or a rhodesian. It doesn't need to have a name. It doesn't need to fit into a box to be good-looking pipe.
I was listening to a group of grade schoolers making sounds with a violin, saxophone, and a snare drum the other day. None of them played those instruments before that moment---or any instruments for that matter---but they saw them, crowded around excitedly, picked them up and started in. When I asked the name of their song they said it was whatever they wanted to call it. When I asked the time signature they said it was whatever they wanted it to be. When I asked what key it was in they said it was every key. When I finally remarked that it sounded like random, cacophonous noise, they said it was the most magnificent orchestral symphony since the last movement of Beethoven's 9th.

Ah, artistry. Simultaneously the best that Man has to offer, and the ultimate refuge for his ignorance and mediocrity. i.e. those things in the world which can't be quantified must all be equally good because beauty is in the of the beholder, and somebody, somewhere likes anything you care to name.

Ted, I think you will find that's not how things work when it comes to high level pipe making. Specifically, when a new "box" is created (which is rare), it is by the best and most experienced makers, not the beginners. And there is only one reason it is accepted when it's introduced: MANY people like it, not just a few.
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Re: #9

Post by DocAitch »

LatakiaLover wrote:
Ted, I think you will find that's not how things work when it comes to high level pipe making. Specifically, when a new "box" is created (which is rare), it is by the best and most experienced makers, not the beginners. And there is only one reason it is accepted when it's introduced: MANY people like it, not just a few.
You only need two people to like it, yourself and somebody with money burning a hole in his pocket. :lol:
DocAitch
"Hettinger, if you stamp 'hand made' on a dog turd, some one will buy it."
-Charles Hollyday, pipe maker, reluctant mentor, and curmudgeon
" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy
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Re: #9

Post by sandahlpipe »

Wrong. You want the maker you are in 5 years once you've developed some skill to like it as well. And when the buyer realizes a couple months after he's purchased a strange-looking pipe, that he can't even sell it for 1/10th the price he paid because nobody else wants it, he's less likely to be a repeat customer.

The pipe market right now is flooded with unique pipes, but is starving for well-executed, solid designs.
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Re: #9

Post by LatakiaLover »

sandahlpipe wrote:You want the maker you are in 5 years once you've developed some skill to like it as well.
Like it, yes. Which is different than looking at it and NOT seeing things you could have done better.

Unless your target market is functionally adequate tobacco access devices, of course. That's a whole different thing. (The guys who only want to produce FATADs tend to drift away from this forum after learning how to do it, though.)
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Jakub P.
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Re: #9

Post by Jakub P. »

Guys, I sense some bad vibes. I believe you all want to help and I'm grateful for it.

I'll explain everything and answer all your questions shortly.
"Making pipes is easy. Making GOOD pipes is hard. Just keep at it and never be satisfied" - George Dibos

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Re: #9

Post by LatakiaLover »

Jakub P. wrote:Guys, I sense some bad vibes.
No bad vibes at all.

Your submission just happened to be the jumping-off point for the board's latest ride on the "Since somebody somewhere can be found who likes, or is moved by, or understands, or otherwise appreciates a given creation, all attempts to address artistry objectively is wrong-headed and pointless" merry-go-round.

It happens from time to time.

No worries. Your Art-Deco-Uber-LovatDog shows a fair amount of technical/turning skill, and there are some true experts here who would love to discuss it with you.
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Re: #9

Post by kamkiel »

LatakiaLover wrote:
Jakub P. wrote:Guys, I sense some bad vibes.
No bad vibes at all.


It happens from time to time.
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Re: #9

Post by LatakiaLover »

Huh?

The "it" I was referring to was the latest iteration of the "all art is equally good" silliness, not some sort of hostility toward Jakub.

Why cut and paste what I wrote to imply otherwise?
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wdteipen
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Re: #9

Post by wdteipen »

Don't get bogged down by the "objectivity of art" discussion. They are right but it's really inconsequential really at the early stages. Almost every new pipemaker goes off in unusual directions with design, mostly because they don't have the knowledge yet to color within the lines. Sometimes this can net surprisingly good ideas but usually they do not. The important thing is that you are learning to make a pipe. There are lots of ways to do this all of which involve making pipes.

Interestingly, if you turned a couple rings on the bowl where the top and bottom meet ala bulldog, it might actually work. The non-tapering shank is a faux pas. As you already noted, the stem is a bit clunky and too short. The heel of the bowl would look more graceful with a bit more material taken off. Finish looks pretty good.

My advice is to get all the crazy ideas out of your system.
Wayne Teipen
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Jakub P.
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Re: #9

Post by Jakub P. »

Hi guys. I'm sorry for such a delay but I had a misunderstanding with my internet provider.

Firstly, I'd like to thank you for a whole bunch of comments.
Secondly, there's been pointed out some issues. I'll try to refer to those major ones. Forgive me if I skipped some comments.


Jeremiah, you're right. I didn't plan this pipe in detail. All I had was a vague image of longshank pipe. This routine is about to end, as I noticed that careful planning might result in a better looking pipe.


Some of you pointed out that stem is too short. I don't want to argue with it.
But please, check that pipe below:

http://scandpipes.com/product.asp?product=3011

I believe it's a great looking pipe, though the stem is short.
I do realize, my stem is slightly shorter and isn't as well executed as in this longshanked lovat.


DocAitch, you mentioned about "the pipe cleaner rule".
As much as I liked that rule, I like longshanked pipes even more. I just can't resist the temptation of making them.


Regards,
Jakub
"Making pipes is easy. Making GOOD pipes is hard. Just keep at it and never be satisfied" - George Dibos

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Re: #9

Post by DocAitch »

Jakub,
Take out your ruler and compare the proportions of that Scandinavian Lovat's stem with yours. The Lovat's stem may be about the same proportionate length to the shank as yours on this pipe, but the saddle portion shorter, and the bite area longer. The white ring is way too wide.
DocAitch
"Hettinger, if you stamp 'hand made' on a dog turd, some one will buy it."
-Charles Hollyday, pipe maker, reluctant mentor, and curmudgeon
" Never show an idiot an unfinished pipe!"- same guy
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Jakub P.
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Re: #9

Post by Jakub P. »

I'm disposed to admit you are right :)
Thanks Doc.
"Making pipes is easy. Making GOOD pipes is hard. Just keep at it and never be satisfied" - George Dibos

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Re: #9

Post by Charl »

All said and done, don't stop making pipes! :lol:
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