Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

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Tyler
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by Tyler »

LatakiaLover wrote:The reason Todd's stance didn't receive much pushback on this forum and has unleashed the Hounds of Hell on Kevin Godbee's is because (for obvious reasons) he named no names, identified no brands, and posted no pictures of the "offending" merchandise. As a result, the reader got to fill in the blank.

A couple pages back I said:
As a general thing, humans decide what they want or like FIRST according to what "feels right" or serves their self-interest, then deal with the attendant facts AFTERWARD, championing those which support their decision, and rejecting, denying, burying, distorting, etc. those which don't.
I should have added, "according to what feels right, serves their self interest, or falls within the realm of their personal experience, then deal with...(etc)"

Because, as pipe makers, we understood---and tended to agree with---what Todd was referring to because we "heard" him talking about double-drilled airways, clunky stems, thin spots in the chamber wall, varnish finishes, and so forth. Poor execution.

The general smokers on Kevin's board, though, "heard" what Todd was saying as an attack on anyone who makes and sells pipes that wears a beard, is under 30, and has an Instagram account. Everything except a technical context.

What a mess.

The moral of the story? if you're going to criticize, be specific, or people at large will see themselves in it somehow.
Well, to be clear, I haven't read much in the other threads across the interwebs. Just saw that it was happening. I'll go read them in a minute.

I don't think this is at all an issue of not naming names, nor was I in my thread addressing Todd. Naming names would, imo, only increase the irritation outside readers might express.

I have had variations on this conversation with lots of makers over the last few years. I was addressing the presumptions and attitudes I've experienced in this thread and the conversations I just mentioned.
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by LatakiaLover »

Tyler wrote: I don't think this is at all an issue of not naming names, nor was I in my thread addressing Todd. Naming names would, imo, only increase the irritation outside readers might express.
I didn't mean to imply that naming names would be a good thing. Doing so would cause too many problems to list.

I only meant that from an abstract logical standpoint, doing so would have kept people from interpreting Todd's statement in their own way.
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by Tyler »

LatakiaLover wrote:
Tyler wrote: I don't think this is at all an issue of not naming names, nor was I in my thread addressing Todd. Naming names would, imo, only increase the irritation outside readers might express.
I didn't mean to imply that naming names would be a good thing. Doing so would cause too many problems to list.

I only meant that from an abstract logical standpoint, doing so would have kept people from interpreting Todd's statement in their own way.
Gotcha on the first point. I remain unconvinced on the second, unless you mean interpreting in the absolute strict sense of generating their own list of who he meant. I don't think a list would help them understand what he cares about and why any better.
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by blenheim45 »

I am going to quote what I wrote to the admin/mods to explain why I, not a pipe carver, wanted to post on the site, and see if it rings any chimes:

Guys, let me clear the air first of all... I am NOT a pipemaker. I wanted to comment on one thread, which I became aware of from it being linked over at reddit/Pipetobacco. the thread is :
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9973&start=120
and I really like your ideas about producing an education bit on what to expect for your pipe purchase dollar, and what to look for in the construction of a pipe.

I am an old fart, rapidly approaching 70, and frequently find myself trying to tell the youngsters over there what makes a good pipe, but all I have for authority is my age, which is a dubious credential among a group so young.

If you haven't noticed reddit pipetobacco is approaching 15,000 registered members, and no telling how many unsubscribed lurkers. Last year at CPCC Show that figure had just hit 12,000.

among the suggestions i would make, just in case that you aren't willing to lower your standards to let a non-carver in...
1) make sure to cover the basics of selecting a pipe starting at the basket level. My sermon on this says that all basket pipes are in someway flawed. What the buyer has to do is determine what the flaw or flaws are that keep it from being a pipe the maker is willing to brand with their name, and then determine whether that flaw is enough to prevent them from enjoying the pipe. i for one am not bothered by sand pits, whether filled or not, as long as the basic engineering of the pipe works.

2) make sure you cover materials that should never be used in making a pipe, such as toxic woods like rosewood and black walnut. One young smoker posted wondering if his tobacco had gotten compromised, because after breaking his cob he had had to wait a month before he got a new pipe, and it was causing his mouth to burn and blister. Turned out his new pipe was a Chinese rosewood pipe advertised as being a brier, which I suppose was technically correct as the tree has thorns (or so I understand), but certainly not what any of us would understand the word to mean. He was especially sensitive to rosewood, but it could have been the death of him had he continued to smoke it, say with some "fresh tobacco". it would be like smoking a pipe made of poison ivy!

We had another carver who came on and was touting his great hand made pipes, they were made of black walnut.

And just this week another came on using "found wood" of unknown origin, which he figured was okay since he was making a bowl liner out of stone. In this case the stone was serpentine, which is an ore of asbestos. He tried to assure one and all that it was "safe" since no asbestos was visible. He did not like my comment that that only meant it was probably not suitable for commercial mining of the asbestos, not that it wasn't there and still hazardous.

3) consider making the information into an e-book. You can charge a nominal fee, $1.99 for example. And Amazon had a policy that you could in fact offer it for free for a period of time through them, which allows you to get reviews and allows the book to move up the list of books on any subject which are measured by the number of books "sold" (even the free ones count for this).
And e-books, unlike their paper and ink counter parts do not require an investment in material, once it is written and designed you are good to go. And if you catch typos or want to revise a section, add a illustration, etc. it can be done without added expense or even interrupting the distribution chain.

I am sure that most of the pipe sites would welcome such an effort as I think you are contemplating, and would promote it. And those 14,000 + young pipe smokers over at reddit are not always going to think that buying a new Peterson is the ultimate pipe purchase, even if a lot of them think anything other than a cob is extravagant currently. [and I think we would all agree the better knowledge base the younger smokers have about the how and why some pipes out perform others, the better the long term health of the endeavor. ]

Yours sincerely, for improved pipes,

Al Lanman (blenheim45)

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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by PremalChheda »

Hello Al,

Welcome.

Those carvers on reddit that are new and are learning, have a great resource they could use. http://www.pipemakersforum.com I have read some of the threads about pipe making on reddit, and I cringe at what is going on. I really hope they are not selling pipes to consumers.

We have covered quite a bit on this forum and with some basic searches, the information can be found quickly. The problem is that some of them, not all, do not want to take the time to do proper research and/or testing before they make a pipe and even sell them. This is also a problem that occurs on this forum from time to time. They are in a rush, and want a quick answer instead of an understanding through practice, apprenticeship, and experimentation. This leads to poor quality work from potentially unstable materials.

As to education to the consumer of what is acceptable in terms of construction and materials, it was in the past covered by Distributors, Retailers, and experienced independent pipe makers. But now with everyone having direct access to the customer, there is a gap with responsibility. A business usually has some experience and expertise in the product and offers quality products to its customers. Many individuals do not understand basic business concepts and this is where the trouble starts.

In order to educate new pipe smokers about what is good or acceptable in any price range, I think it will take a combined effort of experienced pipe makers, retailers, and pipe smokers through social media, videos, pamphlets, etc...

As a retailer, I do educate each and every new pipe smoker that walks into my shop. We will not let them leave without understanding the tobaccos, the pipes, and how to really enjoy a pipe. As a pipe maker, I try to educate other pipe makers on the importance of using quality materials and excellent technical construction. I think most of the pipe makers on this forum and all those I have built a relationship with and do business with go out of their way to help any pipe maker that comes to them for help.
Last edited by PremalChheda on Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

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You can lead a horse to water...
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by blenheim45 »

Premal, you are preaching to the choir here. lol

i find myself repeatedly having to explain that no one has repealed Boyle's Law, and if you are going to smoke a pipe that was engineered to have a filter or condensor, you are going to have to be willing to pay the price, which often means doing things like running a pipe cleaner mid bowl to fight the increased condensation that comes by removing the filter and increasing the expansion chamber that was there.

and so many answers others give show they are used to posting on twitter or some other form of communication that limits the length of an answer, so their post is not an explanation, just a pronouncement from on high. funnily I find, despite the format of reddit, and all its built in short comings, I feel I am aiding this generation of pipe smokers to start to get a handle on how smoking works.

that's why i think that the idea that came out of making an organized piece that showed what the various levels of pipe manufacturing are and what you should get for the various levels of "investment" in a pipe would meet a need. Mind you, getting them to read or watch it will be an ongoing struggle. i know my eyes were opened from both listening to and talking with various carvers and collectors at last years Chicago Pipe show (my first). While i met several fine aspiring carvers, ones who were making decent pipes and always trying to improve their craft, i met a few whose work were jokes.

One "carver" who had switched from doing ornamental carvings to pipes, wasn't even a pipe smoker, although he "posed" as one, having one of his pipes in his mouth and occasionally re-lighting it. as carvings the pipes were attractive enough, but not a one was drilled properly and he had no idea why that was " a big deal". he had driven in from Ohio I think with a bunch of his pipes and was trying to hustle them in the smoking tent, With the level of knowledge at the show I don't think he had any success, and given his attitude I doubt he learned how much he didn't know either.

I stick to the /r/PipeTobbaco site, which is for those of us who are smokers, not those who make the pipes, for as I said I am not a pipecarver. I have a pre-drilled block sitting here, and it has been sitting for over a year, which I got when our local club ordered some , and I still can't figure out what I want to make of it.

One of the recurring questions that comes up is what are you getting when you pay a higher price for one pipe over another. commonly, it is couched in terms of whether a Dunhill is that much better than say a Peterson's, and are either of them actually better than "a good old cob".

We do have some younger carvers who come on from time to time to show their current works, and some are easily up to the point of making properly smokeable pipes, JLayton of Layton Pipes comes to mind. and his pipes are priced reasonably for his level in the craft. He knows he is learning his craft, and is always trying to improve, and takes the mechanics of the pipe seeriously too. All the things you want to see in pipe maker.

I can only hope that you guys can get your enthusiasm up and get your information put there and available. I like the thought of the video, and lots of people on the net certainly relate to getting information that way. But I think the ebook holds a lot of promise too. A "book",which might have been labeled a pamphlet in the days of paper and ink, if the information is there and the links to further information will sell, and be profitable (if that is a consideration) even at a modest price. Lots of little practical and DIY booklets out there selling in the $2 to $4 range, with people quite happy with their purchases, and the authors making money with none of the problems inherent with paper and ink books. Amazon loves them, no inventory to worry about, no shipping fees or non-delivery problems. Collect the money and download the book to the buyer, remit the author's portion of the price, and laugh all the way to the bank (although that is an outdated concept too, as who has to walk something to the bank with electronic payments... click here and it goes from here to there.)
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

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sandahlpipe wrote:You can lead a horse to water...
"You can lead a whore to culture...."
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by LatakiaLover »

blenheim45 wrote:
sandahlpipe wrote:You can lead a horse to water...
"You can lead a whore to culture...."
It feels like I'm back in Callahan's Bar. 8)
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by WCannoy »

FWIW, I just ruined my buffing wheel on the pipe I just posted in the gallery. I hope it helps to clear some things up.
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by blenheim45 »

Lat Lover, you thinking Punday or Tall Tales Night?

I know a shaggy dog story about how Samuel Morse hit an "inventor's block", couldn't come up with a new idea, when he had been the toast of the town. he was under a lot of pressure, always being asked what was new? what are you working on? what's next out of your fertile mind?... and the answer really was nothing he could think of nothing new and revolutionary to work on.

His wife took him away from the city and all the friends and well wishers, and the would be investors, to the quiet of the seashore in Maine. They had a great summer with no pressure, just time together, walking on the beach and in the woods. They read, they played cards, they enjoyed the peace and quiet, and the fresh sea food and bonfires on the beach.

but summer always comes to an end, especially in Maine, and there is a time to go back to the city and back to work. When they get back to their home one of Mrs. Morse's friends asks about how their Summer went, and she responds that it was great. And the friend asks "did it have the desired results? Has Samuel found a new project to work on?


His wife says, with a wry frown, "No. he still is blocked, nothing new to work on... It just goes to show,...
"You can lead a Morse to water... but you can't make him think."
[sound of glasses smashing into the fireplace, midst a chorus of groans]

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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by Thomas Tkach »

Tyler wrote: Bottom line, I just don't understand being bitter over someone else's success. Good for them. As I've mentioned a bajillion times, we're selling more than pipes. We are selling an experience. The pipe is a key component of that, but not as much as we as pipe makers might like to think. The social media guys have this wired. They sell what amounts to memberships into the club of their pipe making persona. Good for them. Again, why does anyone get bent out of shape about that? I'm not convinced this is a finite economy. No one is stealing your piece of the pie. Go make the pie bigger, and cut off your own big slice. (In fact, this is in some ways exactly what the social media hounds are doing.)
(emphasis mine)

I was going to mention this if Tyler didn't because I've heard him say that so much. TJ seems to be opposed to this, looking at the pipe as the only thing being sold. It's an ethical issue for him: using the other elements of experience (beards, tats, logo Ts) to make up for flaws in workmanship, fit & finish, and design/shaping is wrong. It's taking advantage of the consumer's ignorance of what goes into a quality pipe.

Part of me really agrees with TJ. I hate it when people are wrong on the internet, and I see this when people praise 'pipe turds'. This shouldn't bug me so much, but it does.

At the same time, part of me agrees with Tyler. I tend toward being a pretty strict capitalist, and if the market decides that chubby pokers are the most beautiful for of pipe, is it wrong for people to start making them or liking them or buying them? I think I read one of Trevor Talbert's blog posts where he has said that as a collector he is interested in pipes with a story behind them.

Maybe the happy medium is for the back-story and personality to add to the pipe purchase, but not be the only thing. But then again, if people just want a back-story and connection with a cool beard bro by purchasing his pipes, is that really wrong? If the majority of smokers have poor taste, crap pipes are going to sell. We might rightly bemoan people selling stuff with obvious sanding scratches, light gaps, etc. for high prices, but what about well-executed (fit & finish) chubby pokers? What if the majority likes them and wants to buy them? I saw an online friend posting videos about a pipe(turd) he was carving from a kit. I gently suggested that he not let the bowl protrude below the shank line (with sas-esque ms paint mock-ups and all) and he said he might try my suggestions for the next kit, but he liked the bowl sagging down on a straight pipe. Maybe some people will just like ugly things.

This reminds me of another online community: Menswear. There's a forum where guys show off their custom commissioned suits that are tailored to fit their bodies perfectly and hang without any bit of wrinkle or pulling when the wearer is standing still. They even have a gallery for critique that is MUCH harsher than anything that goes on here. They mock the low-brow trendy stuff in GQ which fits too tightly and pulls and wrinkles because of this. But they are a VERY limited set of society that can both afford and appreciate what goes into a custom suit. Most of society that can afford and desires nice clothes will be buying over-priced luxury brands that are relying on brand (like a pipe maker's story, selling experience, etc.) rather than quality to sell their stuff. Those in the know won't fall for this, but there are people out there (brand whores) who just want the brand. Is that wrong?
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by blenheim45 »

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by Thomas Tkach »

blenheim45 wrote:"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."
H. L. Mencken
#Budlight
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by blenheim45 »

The alternative on the theme is :

"no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"

for which the example is .. reality tv.
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by ToddJohnson »

Tyler,

I've had a couple of snowbound days to sit and think about all this. I'm sure everyone is aware of the beating I've taken as the fall guy for this thread, and hindsight being 20/20, I guess this is why the "private" section of this forum exists. Being as passionate and vocal as I am about pipes, I'm sort of used to having my turn in the barrel. That's nothing new. Clearly, if you actually read this thread, you'll notice I'm not the only one who feels a sense of loss over the current state of pipes and pipe making. Nor is it limited to pipe makers. It is a collective viewpoint, and we've all had dozens of conversations about it. I respect the measured viewpoint you've laid out, Tyler, but I don't agree that this is just "sour grapes" over someone else getting a piece of the pie. My question is what are we as pipe makers putting into the pie before we take our slice?

Speaking only for myself, and in a personal capacity, I consider pipe making a noble craft, one that has been honed, nurtured, and passed on from one skilled craftsman to another for more than a century. It's disheartening to see pipe making combined with social media in a way that preys on the consumer and dilutes the craft. Yes, everyone has their own tastes and can buy whatever they'd like, which is why my admonitions were addressed not to the consumer, but to guys making pipes on a pipe making forum. I admit, in retrospect, this was galactically stupid on my part, and now that it's gone viral, I hope the focus will eventually become less "who hates Todd Johnson for being an a-hole," and more "what are the standards of quality one should expect from any pipe in a given price range."

To close with an example of what I was hoping to get across, this is something that legendary Bakersfield country artist Buck Owens put out as a personal statement of his own individual commitment to country music. The goal was to inspire his colleagues to commit themselves to a similar set of ideals. Some did, and some didn't, but we now have an exhibit in the Country Music Hall of Fame entitled "Buck Owens, and the Bakersfield Sound," paying tribute to a group of folks that chose to ply their trade in a particular way and ignore the trends that were diluting it.

This is Buck Owens "Pledge to Country Music:"

"I Shall Sing No Song That Is Not A Country Song.
I Shall Make No Record That Is Not A Country Record.
I Refuse To be Known As Anything But A Country Singer.
I Am Proud To be Associated With Country Music.
Country Music And Country Music Fans Made Me What I Am Today.
And I Shall Not Forget It."

In contrast to Buck's original country sound, this is a recent mashup of six nearly indistinguishable "country" songs receiving loads of airplay on a million stations. The tunes are catchy, but there's very little in the way of lyrical substance, originality, or musical "craftsmanship."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vapt5C3 ... li5gfBbiz3

TJ
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Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by Tyler »

Todd,

I appreciate your reply, and I believe I understand (and am sympathetic to) your concern. Before reiterating your concern, let me first say that I do not think, nor was I intending to communicate, that sour grapes is the only motivating factor for the frustration over social-media-hound sales. I addressed that angle because that's what this whole conversation ultimately sounds like, and I am confident for some people that actually is what this is about. (I've had enough conversations about this issue over the last two years to feel comfortable saying that.) I'm equally confident that's not what this is about for you. You don't even compete (significantly) in that market. You are either way higher or plenty lower than $400 for this to be a sour grapes issue to you.

To summarize your concern it is the erosion of quality, and the apparently lack of respect for the honor and history of the craft that bothers you. (Correct?) I get that completely. I share that though not as passionately as you, naturally, given all you've invested in it. To add to that, I believe we share a concern about customers getting shafted by poor quality at high prices.

My point, though a bit meandering and confusing as I compiled conversational history from outside this thread, was that I don't think a guild solves (to any significant extent) any of the above problems. I think it merely introduces another problem: the insiders versus the outsiders.

Let me also add that I don't feel antagonistic toward the social-media hounds. The reason I think this thread blew up outside our forum is because it has a sour grapes tone that seems to propose the destruction of the "outsiders". My hope, rather than destruction, would be collaboration and friendship. I like the social media guys. I follow them, and I've met many of them in person. I see their successes, and have tried to emulate some of their methods. I have recommended others do the same. On the Pipes Magazine Radio show I spoke at length on the power of social media for pipe makers. It's really quite interesting and amazing. Those that feel similarly and have used it to sell a lot of pipes may or may not understand or fully respect and honor the craft. For those that don't I would attribute that to ignorance more than willful disrespect. My hope is that as those guys grow, they grow to see and appreciate where they have come from. Where they learned the tools necessary and skills needed to do what they do. Where they learned where and how and who to sell pipes to, and what those customers want in a pipe. And I think that will happen naturally most of the time. What I don't want to see happen is the creation of a world that insists they see and fully appreciate this history on a certain timeline, or the else they are unwelcome in the community. That would only generate resentment for the history, I fear, and accomplish the opposite of what I think we all want: pipe makers making great pipes for buyers who get a fair deal and love what they are buying.


To All:

On a side note, something just dawned on me. There are probably very few people in the pipe making community that fully appreciate Todd's role in American pipe making. I ought to write down all I know about the history I've am aware of, but regarding Todd let me say that a family tree of American pipe making would show that Todd is one of, if not THE, most significant forefather in that tree. The number of guys he's taught, and that they have then respectively taught, is huge. So when Todd says, in the line that is most quote in the discussions in other forums about this thread, that he hopes to drive the turd-makers, "back into the hole from whence they came." I presume he doesn't realize that I'm almost every interpretive sense that hole is HIS SHOP.

Oh what a party that will be! (I'm going to be there, and I'll Instagram the whole thing!) :D
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by The Smoking Yeti »

I'd have to say the last two posts summarize everything this thread is actually about quite nicely. I agree with Tyler's assessment on an official guild. I think it would cause more issues than it would fix. It's sad to me that the

Todd, I'm sorry to see the hammering you took on other venues. We tend to view this place as private, which it obviously isn't. It's interesting to me what happens in the pipe world when there is this kind of discussion. It's sad to me that the whole point of our discussion was lost/drowned out by the character bashing. From now on I think Tyler should be our spokes person/fall-man! :D
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by sam a »

All these threads of this strange controversy are in my opinion, and to quote a great pipemaker "train wrenches that lost their fizz"
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Re: Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

Post by ToddJohnson »

Tyler wrote:Todd,

I appreciate your reply, and I believe I understand (and am sympathetic to) your concern. Before reiterating your concern, let me first say that I do not think, nor was I intending to communicate, that sour grapes is the only motivating factor for the frustration over social-media-hound sales. I addressed that angle because that's what this whole conversation ultimately sounds like, and I am confident for some people that actually is what this is about. (I've had enough conversations about this issue over the last two years to feel comfortable saying that.) I'm equally confident that's not what this is about for you. You don't even compete (significantly) in that market. You are either way higher or plenty lower than $400 for this to be a sour grapes issue to you.


I think that's all fair, and it's difficult for anyone who doesn't know me outside a forum to understand the "why's" of this, so it's attributed to "money," "sales," etc. It's human nature to look for the devious and calculating sub-text of a conversation, but I appreciate the perspective that says "hey, this just looks like sour grapes." Point taken, and I'll not argue what you've already stated, that I really have no dog in this fight.
To summarize your concern it is the erosion of quality, and the apparently lack of respect for the honor and history of the craft that bothers you. (Correct?) I get that completely. I share that though not as passionately as you, naturally, given all you've invested in it. To add to that, I believe we share a concern about customers getting shafted by poor quality at high prices.


Yes, and yes.
My point, though a bit meandering and confusing as I compiled conversational history from outside this thread, was that I don't think a guild solves (to any significant extent) any of the above problems. I think it merely introduces another problem: the insiders versus the outsiders.


I agree, and I almost responded to this a couple days ago. Let me try it now. Were we as pipemakers to make some sort of personal pledge that included some basic, non-controversial commitments to quality and integrity, yes that would create an "us." I get your point, but follow me here. Let's say, for example, the "us" agreed "never to sell a pipe they know is too thin at the heel." Is it a bad thing for anyone who won't make that commitment in practice to remain on the "outside," until, in practice, they will? That's a genuine question, not a rhetorical one. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it. Personally, I think the answer is no, it's not a bad thing, because it upholds the integrity of the craft and protects the consumer, whether s/he's a complete novice, a seasoned collector, or some guy's wife that wants to buy him a "nice" pipe for Father's Day.

I think the insiders/outsiders dynamic is only problematic if the borders are closed and it's just a "clique" of people who don't want their turf encroached upon. Maybe there need not be any sort of "group," but rather just a set of tenets that you, as a pipemaker, commit to follow and a corresponding list of explanations for why those things have value. E.g, Tenet: "I will never surface glue an adornment onto a shank," Explanation: "Because this is a joint that has a 100% chance of eventual failure." The consumer then knows never to buy a pipe whose adornment is not attached by means of a sleeve on the briar shank. Knowing that makes him/her a more educated consumer, and knowing that a given pipemaker has already agreed to hold him/herself to the highest set of standards makes him/her a more confident consumer.
Let me also add that I don't feel antagonistic toward the social-media hounds. The reason I think this thread blew up outside our forum is because it has a sour grapes tone that seems to propose the destruction of the "outsiders". My hope, rather than destruction, would be collaboration and friendship. I like the social media guys. I follow them, and I've met many of them in person. I see their successes, and have tried to emulate some of their methods. I have recommended others do the same. On the Pipes Magazine Radio show I spoke at length on the power of social media for pipe makers. It's really quite interesting and amazing. Those that feel similarly and have used it to sell a lot of pipes may or may not understand or fully respect and honor the craft. For those that don't I would attribute that to ignorance more than willful disrespect. My hope is that as those guys grow, they grow to see and appreciate where they have come from. Where they learned the tools necessary and skills needed to do what they do. Where they learned where and how and who to sell pipes to, and what those customers want in a pipe. And I think that will happen naturally most of the time. What I don't want to see happen is the creation of a world that insists they see and fully appreciate this history on a certain timeline, or the else they are unwelcome in the community. That would only generate resentment for the history, I fear, and accomplish the opposite of what I think we all want: pipe makers making great pipes for buyers who get a fair deal and love what they are buying.


I think this is a wise and well-reasoned outlook on things. Perhaps, having had a unique opportunity to observe the "willful disrespect" first hand, it's all I can see, and that's probably a significant blind spot for me. Lord knows there are others, but this one strikes, perhaps, the loudest chord.
To All:

On a side note, something just dawned on me. There are probably very few people in the pipe making community that fully appreciate Todd's role in American pipe making. I ought to write down all I know about the history I've am aware of, but regarding Todd let me say that a family tree of American pipe making would show that Todd is one of, if not THE, most significant forefather in that tree. The number of guys he's taught, and that they have then respectively taught, is huge. So when Todd says, in the line that is most quote in the discussions in other forums about this thread, that he hopes to drive the turd-makers, "back into the hole from whence they came." I presume he doesn't realize that I'm almost every interpretive sense that hole is HIS SHOP.


Let me just say in response to this that, I'm aware what the tree looks like, and however misguided my attempts at pruning it have been over the years, I care a great deal about the fruit that comes from it--probably too much--and I carry an incredible sense of personal responsibility/guilt when I see rotten or unripe apples carried to market from that tree, and even more when people stop eating apples as a result.
Oh what a party that will be! (I'm going to be there, and I'll Instagram the whole thing!) :D
And I will still be trying to connect to wifi in an attempt to join the Google hangouts thing with all of y'all again.

TJ
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